More people should take sabbaticals [Hello Monday Podcast]

In this episode of the Hello Monday Podcast, Jessi Hempel catches up with the founder of the Sabbatical Project, DJ DiDonna. DJ launched this endeavor because he discovered for himself just how valuable it was to take a step back from his day job to recalibrate. He has tips and advice for anyone in any industry, even if you don’t think this approach is available to you, to figure out how to step out in order to step back in again with momentum and purpose. Listen Here


Transcript

Jessi Hempel:

From the news team at LinkedIn, I’m Jessi Hempel, and this is Hello Monday. Summer’s almost here and it’s just in time, isn’t it? I don’t know about you, but I’m just still so tired. Sometimes, I even feel tired of things I know I love doing, and that feeling, it surprises me. It surprised our guest today too when he felt it nearly a decade ago. Today we have DJ DiDonna on the show, he’s founder of this Sabbatical Project. DJ came to this after a first career as an entrepreneur, he worked on access to finance in emerging markets and he loved that work. I mean, he really loved it right up until the moment that he didn’t.

DJ DiDonna:

After about seven, eight years, I was feeling burnt out. And I, I think, you know, burnout now, uh, is a little bit easier to talk about than I think it was even five years ago. And the concept of burning out from your dream job was completely foreign to me. I thought that you burned out, you know, from your banking job or consulting or something like that.

Jessi Hempel:

Today, you’re gonna hear about why DJ ended up taking a sabbatical, how that changed his thoughts on work, and how he thinks you should think about sabbaticals, no matter what stage of life or career you find yourself in. Here’s DJ.

DJ DiDonna:

I talked to my co-founders and you know, said, “Listen, I, I’m really not bringing my best self to work.” And they said, “We’ve noticed,” and took some time off. And so it was my first, you know, sizable vacation from work, um, you know, longer than two weeks in probably 10 years.

Jessi Hempel:

When you thought about taking time off, did you think about it as a sabbatical and how did you structure it?

DJ DiDonna:

So I honestly didn’t know how to fix what the issue was, because again, it was my dream job. I was like, “Is time away gonna, gonna do it?” You know, certainly I can’t leave. It seems very hard to imagine being away from it, but I called it a sabbatical, I think as most people do, because it sounds better than, “I’m going through some sort of crisis that I can’t, I can’t name.”

Jessi Hempel:

(laughs) A nebulous crisis that I can’t name and don’t know how to fix that may or may not get better if I just leave my situation.

DJ DiDonna:

Yeah, exactly. And I think the word sabbatical has these positive connotations that we borrow from academia. And so it’s a lot easier to say, you know, ” I’m going on sabbatical,” versus, “I have no idea what I’m doing, and I thought I’d have everything figured out by this point.”

Jessi Hempel:

And so what happened?

DJ DiDonna:

So it took four months off. Um, you know, importantly, it took me six months after we had agreed that I was going on sabbatical to, to really get on sabbatical, I had to have a forcing function to get out. And I really wanted to focus on some things I thought were important, but never urgent, so the spiritual side of things. And I had my eye on this, uh, Japanese pilgrimage, this Buddhist pilgrimage that walks around this island of Shikoku where you visit 88 temples, um, from the person that basically brought Buddhism to Japan from China.

           I’m a pretty adventurous outdoorsy person and I do everything at hundred miles an hour, and this, this act of walking actually served to slow me down and say, you know, have contemplation, not have a lot of distractions, still be outside, and I think it was really good for my, my soul and my mind. Uh, it was kind of what I needed, not necessarily what I wanted. And I’d never been to Japan and I was kinda interested in Buddhism and stoicism and all that fun stuff and so that was it.

Jessi Hempel:

And when you left to do this, did you think about what the return would be like at the point of leaving or were you just off to do this and you’d reevaluate?

DJ DiDonna:

No. I, I, you know, I, I spent most of the time off kind of working through that in my brain. Um, I was not kind to myself during that time, you know, I was physically pushing myself, I was mentally, you know, stressed out and strained. And that’s pretty common for folks that take this type of break from work. You know, people assume that if you’re off work, “Oh, you must be on this amazing vacation. I’m so jealous.” But you’re do… you’re often undergoing, you know, difficult identity work. You know, I kind of set off on understanding, you know, outside of just anecdotes, um, blog posts about how transformative it was, what’s actually going on under the surface of people that take extended leave.

Jessi Hempel:

DJ got what he was looking for, extended time away to peel back the busyness and figure out what his larger why really was. And then it was time to come back, but for DJ this meant realizing that he didn’t want to stay at his current company. This meant he wouldn’t be around to see it succeed or to help if it ran into trouble. DJ made peace with that and he left.

DJ DiDonna:

I had no idea what would come next, but, um, you know, the reason I had gotten into, um, that career was I wanted to do something that made a positive impact in the world. What I found 5, 6, 7 years later is that I was becoming this global expert on, you know, credit risk and credit scoring and going to these conferences with, uh, people that just really were not like me. And (laughs) I was at this inflection point where I could either continue, and be speaking at world bank conferences for the next 20 years, or kind of redefine myself and, and figure out what’s next, so that’s the path I took.

Jessi Hempel:

This idea of a sabbatical. It really is a timeout for rest and reflection. DJ wants us to think about it as not a period where we’re just simply doing more or other work, but a period where we unwind and rethink.

DJ DiDonna:

I mean, I think that everyone, obviously, when you put on the corporate hat likes to say, you know, “I’m, I’m doing something productive. You know, my academic sabbatical, I’m, I’m for sure doing research.” But, you know, a lot of folks are, they, at least they own more of their time and they have independence and freedom around how they apply their time. And so there’s always a component of rest, but essentially what we did with the research was I partnered with academics from my alma mater, Notre Dame and University of Washington to study sabbatical takers of all shapes, strikes, ages, um, all around the world. And, uh, what we’re trying to figure out is what’s actually taking place such that the super majority, almost everyone we’ve interviewed has said, “This is one of the most impactful experiences of my life.” So a peak life experience on par with childbirth, marriage, uh, the death of loved one, that sort of thing.

           And, you know, essentially what, what we’re discovering is that people are undergoing kind of identity change, whether it’s, um, a totally new identity that they, they didn’t imagine themselves participating in before, or more often really kind of doing some archeology on yourself and saying, you know, like, “What am I really… How did I kind drift to be further away from, from who I thought I’d be or who I wanted to be? And can I use this time to heal myself, do some discovery and, and apply myself to, to make a change?”

Jessi Hempel:

Who is a sabbatical taker today?

DJ DiDonna:

What we found is that there’s, there’s two groups. Obviously, if your company has a sabbatical policy, um, it’s pretty basic decision, right? You don’t have to worry about, you know, not having health insurance or, you know, salary or stipend. Um, and then there’s the majority of folks who have to go alone, right? So either they quit or maybe they got fired, some negative event happened to them either personally or professionally, and they decide to take, uh, extended leave.

           I think importantly, our definition since there really isn’t, uh, a definition is that it’s extended leave, um, intentionally from routine work, right? So if you quit your job or you get fired, your job according to our society is to get another job right away, right?

Jessi Hempel:

Yes.

DJ DiDonna:

So even if someone quits, if they decide to take an extended intentional period of time where they’re not job searching, instead they’re working on themselves, doing something they wanted to do, that counts as a sabbatical. And then there’s folks that have, you know, more official policies, um, where it’s very clear what the, what the boundaries are.

Jessi Hempel:

Let’s start with that second group first. Are there a lot of companies these days that offer sabbaticals?

DJ DiDonna:

It’s becoming more and more popular. Um, you know, the, the best data is from the society of human resources management that shows that the prevalence of sabbaticals basically went up fourfold, um, you know, about a decade ago. I talked to companies that, that have a sabbatical policy and it’s three weeks paid. I talked to companies that have six months unpaid. And so there’s really no agreed on definition or time. Um, and so at the Sabbatical Project, we’re starting to keep a database of company policies so we can actually track who’s giving them what the terms are and things like that. That’s much easier in places like Europe, where companies are kind of mandated to report their time off and benefits, uh, to the government, but we’re, we’re starting to create that database.

Jessi Hempel:

Isn’t three weeks off, just a vacation? (laughs) Like, what, what is the difference between a vacation and a sabbatical? Is it, is it a matter of time?

DJ DiDonna:

Yeah.

Jessi Hempel:

Is it how you structure the time? W- What is it?

DJ DiDonna:

So I, I mean, I have to walk this fine line, ’cause I don’t wanna discourage companies that are offering more time off by saying, you know, “That’s not a sabbatical, it doesn’t count.” But you know, I do think for an individual, if they’re planning to take time off, you know, what we found in the interviews, um, is that people really don’t feel as though they’ve, they’ve like gone and changed out their identity or taken a true step back until six or eight weeks. It takes a lot longer than you would expect. So if you’re not taking at least two, three months, I feel like you’re just getting to the, the benefits, and you’re just getting to the good stuff.

           When you ask about the difference between a sabbatical and a vacation, you know, while you’re working, when you’re on vacation, I think there’s kind of this process running in the back of your head of like, “Work is piling up. You know, I’m going to be the one that’s going to have to do it.” And so, you know, it’s, it’s a bit stressful.

Jessi Hempel:

Yeah.

DJ DiDonna:

A sabbatical, you know, like a well executed parental leave is your responsibilities have been transferred to other people, and so there’s not something piling up, you know, your things have been divided, and other people are doing them. So when you come, you can kind of start afresh, and you don’t have this, this buildup.

Jessi Hempel:

I am generally a, a supporter of capitalism and also a supporter of like the flourishing of the individual identity. And part of that is making your peace with productivity.

DJ DiDonna:

Mm-hmm.

Jessi Hempel:

Um, when you have worked forever, how do you step out of that and still feel worthy as a person?

DJ DiDonna:

I think that’s the, that’s the tough work of a sabbatical. And I would argue that, that happens to people, whether they want it to or not, like life will happen to you and it will snatch you out. You’ll have some catastrophic negative event that will cause you to say, “Oh, there are more important things than work,” or, “I can no longer do the things that I wanna do.”

Jessi Hempel:

Um, like a pandemic?

DJ DiDonna:

Yeah. I mean, that’s (laughs) the first two months of the pandemic, I wrote a piece in Quartz that basically said, “This is a forced sabbatical, um, and what can we learn from that?” And obviously, it’s kind of an… it was, it has been kind of an anti-sabbatical, especially the first phase because you had this, you know, being snatched from regularity and routine, but you didn’t get recovery, you didn’t get travel exploration. You just kind of had everything else turned up to 11 to say like, “Can you now see how unsustainable and ridiculous your life was in many ways?”

Jessi Hempel:

(laughs) For our listeners who actually might be very interested in figuring out how to frame and plan for a sabbatical, how can you really step away without leaving on the table the things you really gotta be taking care of?

DJ DiDonna:

Yeah. I mean, one of the misconceptions about sabbaticals that I, that I often kind of deal with is that just because I’m suggesting that everyone should, should take a sabbatical, it doesn’t mean that you, everyone can take a sabbatical right now. (laughs) Very few people can take a sabbatical right now. Um, so start planning, right? I mean, this is something that, that can and will have, uh, an immense impact on your life, but you might not be able to take it for five, seven years. Um, you’re talking about, you know, if you take it every decade, that’s 5% of your life, right? And so if you can save up 5, 5% of your salary over 10 years, then you’ve got a fully funded sabbatical.

           So where it becomes difficult is when someone gets to the point of burnout or catastrophe and they pull the rip cord and they have to take one right now, and then it’s a panic ’cause, you know, “How do I… What do I do with my mortgage? You know, what, what can I do with my kids? My spouse isn’t on, on their sabbatical,” that sort of thing.

Jessi Hempel:

Okay.

DJ DiDonna:

So the first thing I would say is just, you know, use this maybe episode to plant a seed. This is possible. “What would I like to do on sabbatical? What would I need in order to be able to take a few months off work?” Um, from a financial standpoint, you know, the reason we started the Sabbatical Project is to have more people taking sabbaticals which normalizes the behavior. A lot of those people will hopefully work at companies that can set up policies so that, you know, when there’s paid sabbatical or when, even when it’s, you know, culturally acceptable in the company, then more people feel comfortable taking it, and then kind of people of all different economic backgrounds can be, have access to it. Realizing that’s a possibility is one of the most important aspects to someone feeling permission to take it.

Jessi Hempel:

DJ, you talk about your own self growth, sort of reshaping how you thought about who you were and what you were doing. I think from the people that I know who’ve taken sabbatical, they’ve described similar experiences. The challenge and the danger for an employer is that one could come back to one’s job and think, “Well, I don’t wanna do this job anymore,” and leave. So how do you mitigate that risk for businesses? How do you talk to businesses about this? Because I guess it’s part of your job, right?

DJ DiDonna:

First of all, what I would say is, “According to our research, the super majority of people that, that take sabbatical when it’s offered by their company return to their job.” So we have 80% of people are returning to their job. I think the mistake that companies make, um, there’s a few tech companies that are notorious about this is, uh, mistaking kind of causation with correlation where they have a toxic workplace, people are burnt out, they introduce the sabbatical policy and almost everyone leaves. And they say, “You see, it’s the sabbatical.” Like the solution is not to offer that at all and I don’t think that’s right. I think if you wait until people are already kind of past their, their limit, then sure, people are gonna leave. Um, so I think having it be predictable, you know, “Here’s how many years it takes before you get there. You know, here’s stories of people who have taken it.”

           Um, and also, you know, frankly, I think we need to rethink our, our relationship between, um, people leaving the job and whether or not that’s a good or a bad thing. I think that, you know, it’s not always great to, to hold on to people that don’t wanna be there. And even before the pandemic, there was a, you know, a burnout and a dis… a worker disengagement crisis. Um, I think keeping workers that are disengaged and, and should be moving on to something else is, is not a positive thing. Um, but using it to, to increase, um, the amount of tenure that people have at companies, especially in the tech sphere is a positive thing.

Jessi Hempel:

So how do we figure out how best to use the time?

DJ DiDonna:

There’s really no bad way to spend it. It’s really about self exploration, right? So anchor around something that you’d really like to do if you had time off, um, and then build from there. You know, really having unstructured time and allowing for time where you are restoring your health, um, healing yourself are things that people usually skip over.

Jessi Hempel:

They’re super uncomfortable, just saying, DJ.

DJ DiDonna:

Absolutely.

Jessi Hempel:

Really uncomfortable.

DJ DiDonna:

(laughs) I mean, can you imagine you’re, you’ve like, you’ve saved up or you’ve gotten to the point where you can take time off and then you don’t have every week kind of planned out to a tee, um, very stressful.

Jessi Hempel:

(laughs) Yeah, indeed.

DJ DiDonna:

That’s kind of the benefit of something like a pilgrimage is it’s this thing that’s kind of been planned and done by people for centuries. Um, you can have your own kind of internal experience, but essentially it’s a recipe for, you know, there’s some physical aspects to it, there’s some spiritual aspects to it, you’re outdoors, um, and you don’t really have to think about much other than, you know, fighting all the crazy thoughts in your brain.

Jessi Hempel:

We’re gonna take a quick break. When we come back, DJ share some tips for how to plan a successful sabbatical. And we’re back, during our conversation, DJ talked about some of the mistakes people make and ways that we may wanna troubleshoot our planning.

DJ DiDonna:

The first one is not having enough time, right? Um, and I think that can be both the, the pure amount of time of the sabbatical, uh, and then also, you know, the way that people kind of set about doing it. So one of the things that, that hurts having enough time is whether you’re disconnected. Are you disconnected from routine life? Are you fully disconnected? Um, un- unable to be contacted from work life?

           Uh, a lot of people will say like, “You know, if I take a couple consulting projects, maybe just a few hours a week, then I can really extend my runway.” And, you know, you hear this all the time from retired folks, uh, three hours a week of, of obligation expands to fill the container, right?

Jessi Hempel:

Yes.

DJ DiDonna:

(laughs) And so then you’re, you’re worrying about the three hour, “Am I gonna have connection during that time? Am I prepared for it?” And then it becomes a full day. And then all of a sudden you can’t do a lot of things you wanna do. So making sure you’re disconnected. Um, work like activities, You know, I, I talked about the definition being disconnection, you know, separation from routine work. It’s totally fine to do work like activities. We had people, you know, trained to be a pro- professional photographer, we had people, you know, trained to be yoga teachers or, you know, um, write a book. Um, but if it’s too similar to your existing work, it’s just gonna feel like swapping other workout for, you know, more unpaid work (laughs).

Jessi Hempel:

Yeah. Well put.

DJ DiDonna:

So be careful with like work like activities that are very similar to what you do normally. And, you know, set aside that time at the beginning to heal, make sure that you’re like actually healing, doing things that aren’t, um, super hectic so that you can detoxify.

Jessi Hempel:

So how can we use the principles of a sabbatical to support us in reinvention, e- even if we can’t quite take the time?

DJ DiDonna:

So, um, I… one of the interviewees talked about using sabbaticals as hypothesis testing, right? So they were like, “I, I would always wanna, you know, work in retirement at an eco lodge in Costa Rica or something.” And so, you know, how is that going to be if you’ve never done it before? And what ended up happening, he worked as a chef in an eco lodge in Costa Rica and also in Hawaii, and he realized that, you know, it wasn’t what it was all cracked up to be.

           And so I think that whether you have an entire sabbatical or just shorter stents where you can essentially do internships, right? In entrepreneurship, they call it, you know, minimum viable product, um, and, you know, get yourself to actually try some of those questions that you have versus pushing it out and waiting until, until later ’cause oftentimes later never comes.

Jessi Hempel:

At this point in the conversation, DJ did something that doesn’t happen a lot on Hello Monday, he turned the tables on me. He started asking me questions.

DJ DiDonna:

Have you ever had a chance to take extended leave?

Jessi Hempel:

So I took extended leave actually earlier this year, um, because my wife had a baby, and I sold a book, and LinkedIn has an incredible parental leave, uh, policy. And so I got close to half a year of time to be with my family-

DJ DiDonna:

Awesome.

Jessi Hempel:

… and time to write the book. And I’ll tell you, I hadn’t thought about it as a sabbatical until this conversation, because I was so darn busy. I mean, you mentioned taking time to heal. I think the healing was probably… I mean, it must have been mapped into that experience, DJ, because I do know that when I came back to this job, I came back with so much sort of untapped creativity and so much energy for the job. It, it really made a difference.

DJ DiDonna:

What… like, how did that feel coming back like that?

Jessi Hempel:

It felt like, you know, our, our family just got a new television. We got that, that frame television. And we replaced a 15 year old television, and now all of the pictures, there’s the same pictures, but they’re like cleaner and clearer and crisper and more inviting, and my work life felt like that. Like the, the time off and the time to be with my family left me feeling like a more whole person.

DJ DiDonna:

Yes.

Jessi Hempel:

Right.

DJ DiDonna:

I mean that, like, that’s a great… this is a great story for multiple reasons, um, obviously because you’re happy about it, but, um, so, you know, people assume, and this is why I’m kind of bashful about telling my sabbatical story, you know, people assume that you have to have some, you know, backpacking journey, climb some mountains. Um, and I think there’s different sabbaticals for different times of life, right? I mean, your gap year before college might be that, but your time off at this stage in life might be being fully present for a really important, you know, monumental experience in life, like bringing a new child into the household. Um, and then, you know, being able to actually do work that’s not your work, and have the effect be to come back and feel more creative and more vivid in the old work.

           I mean, that’s the kind of story that I think employers should look at and say, “Okay, if we do this right, we can allow them to do some kind of self work and ta- tangential work that probably helps, you know, your career at LinkedIn anyway.” And you know, you come back and see your, your traditional job with, with new eyes, which is kind of best case scenario for everybody.

Jessi Hempel:

As we neared the end of our conversation, I asked DJ, what else he thought people should keep in mind about sabbaticals and how to take them.

DJ DiDonna:

I think a couple things are important. Um, the barriers, obviously, of people taking sabbaticals, you, you had talked about, you know, cost and, and finances. Um, the other thing that people typically are worried about are optics, so how will this look to other people? And I think, you know, LinkedIn has actually done an amazing job of, of helping to push this forward by announcing that career breaks feature that they rolled out last, last month. I mean, it’s really just saying, “How do I describe what I’m doing to other people in a way that I don’t look irresponsible, right?”

           Um, and we did a study, um, on my, my Harvard Business School classmates, 10 years after graduation. People were eight times more likely to fear how it would look, uh, to someone that they were taking time off than they were to hold it against them or to view it negatively. And so it’s really about like, people’s perceptions of whether what they’re doing is acceptable, and I think that’s changed a lot during the course of the pandemic, um, you know, with the great resignation and great reshuffle.

Jessi Hempel:

Part of the reason for that change, I think, and tell me if you don’t agree with this is because the nature of what a career is has become much more malleable. And so it matters much less that you hit the right rungs on the ladder in order and much more that you can explain your path in a way that makes you seem forward thinking and capable.

DJ DiDonna:

Exactly. And, you know, we’re all in charge of our own narrative, right? So I remember, uh, a person I was counseling, uh, was saying, “You know, I wanna go on sabbatical, but I, I don’t want it to look totally unprofessional. What should I do?” And I was like, “Well, what are you interested in?” He says, “Gov tech, civic tech.” I said, “Great. Where’s the best place in the world for civic tech?” He said, “Estonia.” I go, “Great. Go to Estonia for a week, get an Airbnb and like, and look around, poke around, and if you make some contacts, great, if not, you can tell people that you went to Estonia because it was the hub for civic tech, and that’s how you can show that you’re committed to it in the future.” You know what I mean?

           Like put a little bit of effort into it. Um, but you control your own narrative and no one’s going back and checking your passport to see how much time or what you did, or whether you had too much fun or did too much work, right? So.

Jessi Hempel:

(laughs) That’s good advice actually.

DJ DiDonna:

One of the surprising findings of the study is that, um, the majority of folks come into sabbatical because of a negative catalyst. So they wait until it’s too late, some, some thing snatches them out of kind of routine life, and then they take time off, which the benefits of the time off is gonna take longer to accrue, because you’re stressed out and healed… you know, needing to be healed.

           Um, the other thing we found is that we kind of termed it functional workaholism. People didn’t realize what their negative relationship with work was until they stepped back from it, and it was more of a continuum versus this cliff that you fall off with burnout. And so people stepped back and they said, “Wow, you know, I was actually, I was actually functioning pretty well. Not a lot of folks around me knew that I was feeling really burnt out or that I had a bad relationship with work, but now that I’ve seen it, I wanna return to work in a different way.” Which doesn’t necessarily mean they quit and do something totally different, it’s that their mentality and their approach towards work has changed, which it sounds like for you, it might have a bit.

Jessi Hempel:

Well, yes, very much so. And I think it is like, it’s worth pointing out here that when you come back to work and are able to bring a different mentality of growth mindset, a more full expression of yourself, you contribute that to the culture that you enter. And right, we talk so much about work culture and cultures in which we can thrive, and we thrive among people who are thriving.

DJ DiDonna:

Mm-hmm.

Jessi Hempel:

That is just a fact, right? And so you’re actually contributing something pretty critical to your place of employment.

DJ DiDonna:

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it, it allows people to celebrate the, the more whole human, because they can kind of get a peek at what’s important to folks, and they can see, you know, when you’re doing better, um, so that, that’s contagious and it fits with the research that we found that, you know, by taking a sabbatical and normalizing that, that’s contagious. And so that’s one of the, the purposes of the Sabbatical Project is to normalize that, tell stories, um, help companies create policies and, you know, try to change the world through allowing people to do something that really matters to them.

Jessi Hempel:

That was DJ DiDonna, you can check out his work at thesabbaticalproject.org or visit him on LinkedIn. This week on Office Hours, we’re gonna talk about deep rest. If you had six months to recharge and reflect, what might that time look like for you? Join our Hello Monday team this Wednesday afternoon for Office Hours, we’ll talk it through. You can find us live at 3:00 PM Eastern on the LinkedIn News page, or email us for a link at hellomonday@linkedin.com. Hello Monday is the production of LinkedIn, Sarah Storm produced this episode with help from Franz Bowen, Joe DiGiorgi mixed our show, Florencia Iriondo is head of original audio and video, Dave Pond is head of news production, Michaela Greer and Victoria Taylor know the power of deep rest. Our music was composed just for us by the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. Dan Roth is the editor in chief of LinkedIn. I’m Jessi Hempel, see you next Monday. Thanks for listening.

DJ DiDonna:

Oh man, I haven’t eaten breakfast for four years and um-

Jessi Hempel:

What’s the thinking on that, DJ? Are you, uh, are you a faster?

DJ DiDonna:

Yeah, I’m a faster.

Jessi Hempel:

So what, what’s your window? Do you eat between like 12:00 and 8:00 or something like that?

DJ DiDonna:

Yeah, I try.

Jessi Hempel:

Yeah.

DJ DiDonna:

As much as I can.

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InterviewsPodcast

You Must Leave [Newsletter]

Long time — and lots to share! Hello from Dublin, where I’m giving the provocatively-titled talk YOU MUST LEAVE at Notre …

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ResearchWhat's New

Want to take a sabbatical? Start Here!

We reached out to our Facebook Community to ask if they had any advice they would give to someone going on a sabbatical… and they did.

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AdviceBlog